ok because Ubuntu seems to be elusive I decided to go back to a build I have worked with in the past Centos. I followed the post here Installing ErpNext on CentOs 7 - Guide with moderator modifications and had the same frappe issue, no password and no site.
If I had the frappe password I suppose I could have installed as production site despite the easy method stating it should be installed.
This is very frustrating as my original post suggest.
Can we get a real definitive step by step install for version 7 for Centos7 and Ubuntu 16.04 so we can make an informed decision on this product without reinventing the wheel?