Payments

[becht_robert]

Hi all,

I have been silent on this forum for a while communicating directly with Erpnext.

Let me address an issue that concerns me for a while, and hopefully there will be some feedback from the forum.

For a non-account it is strange that there is no “payment” tab in ERPNext.

Payments are straightforward if it concerns the workflow “PO,PR,PI,PP” (order,receipt,invoice,payment). However, companies do have to pay many items where this sequence is not useful such as electricity bills, petrol for the vehicle, insurance etc.

This has to be entered now under accounts>> Journal Voucher General Ledger Entries.

For a non-account specialist, i always have to open an “old PV” to see what is credit and what is debit. Also “debit notes” and “excise vouchers” are somthing for a specialist, for a simple part-time shop administrator like myself they have no meaning (i google them to understand what it means).

I suggest two things:

1) Under the main menu a Payment Tab:

Here in plain English a form to do / or receive payments like electricity bills, stationary: Just to whom, account head, tax info, date and “the system” will generated the correct JV.

So I do not have to enter 3 lines (payment to company, VAT info, Bank account/cash) and contemplate what is credit and what is debit.

2) It would be convenient if a monthly payment can be generated automatically or a larger sum redistributed over the month.

Take my subscription to ERPNEXT. It is was a monthly payment that i had to manually enter monthly, and now we pay a year sum and it would be nice if we could redistribute this over the month of the year.

rgds robert

[mailmemumbai]

Dear Robert,

Welcome back and thanks for suggestions. Let's discuss both the feature request below.

1. Template of ledgers based on expense type selected.

Just like option for creating tax and other charges master, we can allow creating template for expense entry also. The other workaround is already explained by you. Copy old expense voucher, amend dates and amount and submit.

2. Auto-creation of JV for recurring expenses (like rent).

You can make POS invoice and make it recurring. POS invoice will book expenses against supplier and make payment entry also. The same will be emailed to users specified which also works as reminder.

Regards,

Umair Sayyed

On Fri, Jul 13, 2012 at 3:08 PM, robert <be...@gmail.com> wrote:

Hi all,

I have been silent on this forum for a while communicating directly with Erpnext.

Let me address an issue that concerns me for a while, and hopefully there will be some feedback from the forum.

For a non-account it is strange that there is no "payment" tab in ERPNext.

Payments are straightforward if it concerns the workflow "PO,PR,PI,PP" (order,receipt,invoice,payment). However, companies do have to pay many items where this sequence is not useful such as electricity bills, petrol for the vehicle, insurance etc.

This has to be entered now under accounts>> Journal Voucher General Ledger Entries.

For a non-account specialist, i always have to open an "old PV" to see what is credit and what is debit. Also "debit notes" and "excise vouchers" are somthing for a specialist, for a simple part-time shop administrator like myself they have no meaning (i google them to understand what it means).

I suggest two things:

1) Under the main menu a Payment Tab:

Here in plain English a form to do / or receive payments like electricity bills, stationary: Just to whom, account head, tax info, date and "the system" will generated the correct JV.

So I do not have to enter 3 lines (payment to company, VAT info, Bank account/cash) and contemplate what is credit and what is debit.

2) It would be convenient if a monthly payment can be generated automatically or a larger sum redistributed over the month.

Take my subscription to ERPNEXT. It is was a monthly payment that i had to manually enter monthly, and now we pay a year sum and it would be nice if we could redistribute this over the month of the year.

rgds robert

[system]

Hello i have also been quite around here and reading the new manual

However i would like to begin entering in all my bills and expenses into ERPNext, for the last year or two. As i need to do my taxes, and would like think erpnext might be a good way to achieve this.


I do not quite follow how i would create a reoccurring expense for say Rent or Phone bill.

Also i do not really know what i am doing here so Rent/Bills would be a simple debit Voucher right?

I basically, have a stack of supplier invoices i need to enter guessing i should enter them as Purchase invoices, another stack of bills (rent/utils/phone), a stack random expenses (food receipts/office supplies), to make matters worse i was running everything threw my personal bank account and my personal VISA. arrgh such a daunting task now i remember why i have put it off for so long. Guess i have to just start entering data and hope i can make it all match up in the end.


My Accountant/Friend/Future ERPNext User, thinks I am crazy as this is quite a task that i have put off far too long, and i have piles and piles of papers to go through, and he recommends putting everything into spreadsheets to ease the burden of data entry. He is not sure if ERPNext is flexible enough to handle such a mess i have made.

On Fri, Jul 13, 2012 at 4:15 AM, Umair Sayyed <ma…@gmail.com> wrote:

Dear Robert,

Welcome back and thanks for suggestions. Let's discuss both the feature request below.

1. Template of ledgers based on expense type selected.

Just like option for creating tax and other charges master, we can allow creating template for expense entry also. The other workaround is already explained by you. Copy old expense voucher, amend dates and amount and submit.

2. Auto-creation of JV for recurring expenses (like rent).

You can make POS invoice and make it recurring. POS invoice will book expenses against supplier and make payment entry also. The same will be emailed to users specified which also works as reminder.

Regards,

Umair Sayyed

On Fri, Jul 13, 2012 at 3:08 PM, robert <be...@gmail.com> wrote:

Hi all,

I have been silent on this forum for a while communicating directly with Erpnext.

Let me address an issue that concerns me for a while, and hopefully there will be some feedback from the forum.

For a non-account it is strange that there is no "payment" tab in ERPNext.

Payments are straightforward if it concerns the workflow "PO,PR,PI,PP" (order,receipt,invoice,payment). However, companies do have to pay many items where this sequence is not useful such as electricity bills, petrol for the vehicle, insurance etc.

This has to be entered now under accounts>> Journal Voucher General Ledger Entries.

For a non-account specialist, i always have to open an "old PV" to see what is credit and what is debit. Also "debit notes" and "excise vouchers" are somthing for a specialist, for a simple part-time shop administrator like myself they have no meaning (i google them to understand what it means).

I suggest two things:

1) Under the main menu a Payment Tab:

Here in plain English a form to do / or receive payments like electricity bills, stationary: Just to whom, account head, tax info, date and "the system" will generated the correct JV.

So I do not have to enter 3 lines (payment to company, VAT info, Bank account/cash) and contemplate what is credit and what is debit.

2) It would be convenient if a monthly payment can be generated automatically or a larger sum redistributed over the month.

Take my subscription to ERPNEXT. It is was a monthly payment that i had to manually enter monthly, and now we pay a year sum and it would be nice if we could redistribute this over the month of the year.

rgds robert

[rmehta]

Ryan,

Replies below:

On 16-Jul-2012, at 12:40 AM, Ryan vAN GINNEKEN wrote:

Hello i have also been quite around here and reading the new manual :)

However i would like to begin entering in all my bills and expenses into ERPNext, for the last year or two. As i need to do my taxes, and would like think erpnext might be a good way to achieve this. 

I do not quite follow how i would create a reoccurring expense for say Rent or Phone bill. 

Also i do not really know what i am doing here so Rent/Bills would be a simple debit Voucher right?

You will have to enter a Journal Voucher for them (debit expenses, credit your bank / credit card). You will have to create the account heads in Chart of Accounts.

I basically, have a stack of supplier invoices i need to enter guessing i should enter them as Purchase invoices,  another stack of bills (rent/utils/phone), a stack random expenses (food receipts/office supplies), to make matters worse i was running everything threw my personal bank account and my personal VISA. arrgh such a daunting task now i remember why i have put it off for so long. Guess i have to just start entering data and hope i can make it all match up in the end.      

You will need to make a balance sheet for your activities. What you own, what you owe etc, you might need the help of an accountant for that. In your balance sheet, only "open" invoices (where the payment is due) will be present as receivables or payables, the rest, you need not enter as they are paid for. You will have to make the opening entires (as explained in the appendix in the manual) and enter only those invoices that you have outstanding + all your other assets (like a bank balance, equipment, loans - whatever applies) and liabilities.

My Accountant/Friend/Future ERPNext User, thinks I am crazy as this is quite a task that i have put off far too long, and i have piles and piles of papers to go through, and he recommends putting everything into spreadsheets to ease the burden of data entry.  He is not sure if ERPNext is flexible enough to handle such a mess i have made.

Just keep a cut-off date and start entering all information in ERPNext after that date. For old invoices, you can still  lookup your files.

On Fri, Jul 13, 2012 at 4:15 AM, Umair Sayyed <ma...@gmail.com> wrote:

Dear Robert,

Welcome back and thanks for suggestions. Let's discuss both the feature request below.

1. Template of ledgers based on expense type selected.

Just like option for creating tax and other charges master, we can allow creating template for expense entry also. The other workaround is already explained by you. Copy old expense voucher, amend dates and amount and submit.

2. Auto-creation of JV for recurring expenses (like rent).

You can make POS invoice and make it recurring. POS invoice will book expenses against supplier and make payment entry also. The same will be emailed to users specified which also works as reminder.

Regards,

Umair Sayyed

On Fri, Jul 13, 2012 at 3:08 PM, robert <be...@gmail.com> wrote:

Hi all,

I have been silent on this forum for a while communicating directly with Erpnext.

Let me address an issue that concerns me for a while, and hopefully there will be some feedback from the forum.

For a non-account it is strange that there is no “payment” tab in ERPNext.

Payments are straightforward if it concerns the workflow "PO,PR,PI,PP" (order,receipt,invoice,payment). However, companies do have to pay many items where this sequence is not useful such as electricity bills, petrol for the vehicle, insurance etc.

This has to be entered now under accounts>> Journal Voucher General Ledger Entries.

For a non-account specialist, i always have to open an “old PV” to see what is credit and what is debit. Also “debit notes” and “excise vouchers” are somthing for a specialist, for a simple part-time shop administrator like myself they have no meaning (i google them to understand what it means).

I suggest two things:

1) Under the main menu a Payment Tab:

Here in plain English a form to do / or receive payments like electricity bills, stationary: Just to whom, account head, tax info, date and "the system" will generated the correct JV.

So I do not have to enter 3 lines (payment to company, VAT info, Bank account/cash) and contemplate what is credit and what is debit.

2) It would be convenient if a monthly payment can be generated automatically or a larger sum redistributed over the month.

Take my subscription to ERPNEXT. It is was a monthly payment that i had to manually enter monthly, and now we pay a year sum and it would be nice if we could redistribute this over the month of the year.

rgds robert

[becht_robert]

Hi Umair,

I absolutely do not understand how i could “record” electricity, stationary, erpnext subscription, ------ etc using the POS.

Also the purchase Invoice seems cumbersome since it is based on Items, and not everything is easely “itemized”, and even more two many items will be created.

I checked the new manual:

Note: Is a purchase an “Expense” or “Asset”?

If the Item is consumed immediately on purchase or if it is a service, then the 

purchase becomes an “Expense”. For example, a telephone bill or travel bill is an 

“Expense” - it is already consumed.

For inventory Items, that have a value, these purchases are not yet “Expense”, because 

they still have a value while they remain in your stock. They are “Assets”. If they are 

raw-materials (used in a process), they will become “Expense” the moment they are 

consumed in the process. If they are to be sold to a Customer, the become “Expense” 

when you ship them to the Customer.

Note: In ERPNext, this conversion from “Asset” to “Expense” is not clear. As of the 

current version, you will have to manually convert an item from an “Asset” to 

“Expense” via a Journal Voucher. We know its a shortcoming and will be fixed in an 

upcoming version pretty soon.

So, I understand correctly, there will (soon) be a userfriendly method the enter payments for “non-goods”, etc.

rgds robert

On Friday, July 13, 2012 11:38:38 AM UTC+2, robert wrote:

Hi all,

I have been silent on this forum for a while communicating directly with Erpnext.

Let me address an issue that concerns me for a while, and hopefully there will be some feedback from the forum.

For a non-account it is strange that there is no “payment” tab in ERPNext.

Payments are straightforward if it concerns the workflow “PO,PR,PI,PP” (order,receipt,invoice,payment). However, companies do have to pay many items where this sequence is not useful such as electricity bills, petrol for the vehicle, insurance etc.

This has to be entered now under accounts>> Journal Voucher General Ledger Entries.

For a non-account specialist, i always have to open an “old PV” to see what is credit and what is debit. Also “debit notes” and “excise vouchers” are somthing for a specialist, for a simple part-time shop administrator like myself they have no meaning (i google them to understand what it means).

I suggest two things:

1) Under the main menu a Payment Tab:

Here in plain English a form to do / or receive payments like electricity bills, stationary: Just to whom, account head, tax info, date and “the system” will generated the correct JV.

So I do not have to enter 3 lines (payment to company, VAT info, Bank account/cash) and contemplate what is credit and what is debit.

2) It would be convenient if a monthly payment can be generated automatically or a larger sum redistributed over the month.

Take my subscription to ERPNEXT. It is was a monthly payment that i had to manually enter monthly, and now we pay a year sum and it would be nice if we could redistribute this over the month of the year.

rgds robert

[umair]

Dear Robert,

Sorry for misleading explanation for expense booking. We don't have recurring option in purchase invoice yet. So, please avoid the suggestion of POS and recurring invoice for expense booking.


In purchase invoice, if you noticed, the item code is not mandatory. This means you need not create item for each expenses type. Just provide item name (based on expense type), qty, rates and expenses account in item details.


To check value of stock in hand, we have Stock Report which will give you stock valuation of an item in specific warehouse. At quarter or year end if you want to book stock in hand, then you will need to pass JV will following account heads.


Dr. Stock in hand… XXX
Cr. Expense account… XXX

From second time onwards, there will be entry only difference between stock ledgers balance and actual valuation of stock in hand (which will be available in stock report).


We shall update you when stock and expense booking is automated in system.

–
Thanks and Regards,

Umair Sayyed
um…@erpnext.com
www.erpnext.com

---- ERPNext - World's most affordable ERP ----

On Tue, Jul 17, 2012 at 2:18 AM, robert <be…@gmail.com> wrote:

Hi Umair,

I absolutely do not understand how i could "record" electricity, stationary, erpnext subscription, ------ etc using the POS.

Also the purchase Invoice seems cumbersome since it is based on Items, and not everything is easely "itemized", and even more two many items will be created.

I checked the new manual:

Note: Is a purchase an “Expense” or “Asset”?

If the Item is consumed immediately on purchase or if it is a service, then the

purchase becomes an “Expense”. For example, a telephone bill or travel bill is an

“Expense” - it is already consumed.

For inventory Items, that have a value, these purchases are not yet “Expense”, because

they still have a value while they remain in your stock. They are “Assets”. If they are

raw-materials (used in a process), they will become “Expense” the moment they are

consumed in the process. If they are to be sold to a Customer, the become “Expense”

when you ship them to the Customer.

Note: In ERPNext, this conversion from “Asset” to “Expense” is not clear. As of the

current version, you will have to manually convert an item from an “Asset” to

“Expense” via a Journal Voucher. We know its a shortcoming and will be fixed in an

upcoming version pretty soon.

So, I understand correctly, there will (soon) be a userfriendly method the enter payments for "non-goods", etc.

rgds robert

On Friday, July 13, 2012 11:38:38 AM UTC+2, robert wrote:

Hi all,

I have been silent on this forum for a while communicating directly with Erpnext.

Let me address an issue that concerns me for a while, and hopefully there will be some feedback from the forum.

For a non-account it is strange that there is no "payment" tab in ERPNext.

Payments are straightforward if it concerns the workflow "PO,PR,PI,PP" (order,receipt,invoice,payment). However, companies do have to pay many items where this sequence is not useful such as electricity bills, petrol for the vehicle, insurance etc.

This has to be entered now under accounts>> Journal Voucher General Ledger Entries.

For a non-account specialist, i always have to open an "old PV" to see what is credit and what is debit. Also "debit notes" and "excise vouchers" are somthing for a specialist, for a simple part-time shop administrator like myself they have no meaning (i google them to understand what it means).

I suggest two things:

1) Under the main menu a Payment Tab:

Here in plain English a form to do / or receive payments like electricity bills, stationary: Just to whom, account head, tax info, date and "the system" will generated the correct JV.

So I do not have to enter 3 lines (payment to company, VAT info, Bank account/cash) and contemplate what is credit and what is debit.

2) It would be convenient if a monthly payment can be generated automatically or a larger sum redistributed over the month.

Take my subscription to ERPNEXT. It is was a monthly payment that i had to manually enter monthly, and now we pay a year sum and it would be nice if we could redistribute this over the month of the year.

rgds robert

[becht_robert]

Hi Umair,

*****In purchase invoice, if you noticed, the item code is not mandatory. This means you need not create item for each expenses type. Just provide item name (based on expense type), qty, rates and expenses account in item details. 

Ok, this is essential, Let's be clear about it.

I have an electricity bill for may, say Euro 100 and VAT Euro 10. Purchase Invoice : enter in Item table description electricity may 12, and under rate 100 under account head "Water & Elctricity Expenses" and nothing else. In the tax table I enter the vat rate. Or i make an appropriate tax/charges template for such purchases (VAT only, special utility charges).

Save, submit. Finished. Now I make a payment entry linked to the PI just created.  This process is identical to creating a voucher where I enter the details ( as I used to do so far)???

Please expain the pro's and con's of the two approaches.

Monthly invoice could be generated by copy and change date only (if monthly payment is always the same)

I believe you should (and also in manual) give this some attention since it is important for all users of Erpnext.

rgds robert

On Friday, July 13, 2012 11:38:38 AM UTC+2, robert wrote:

Hi all,

I have been silent on this forum for a while communicating directly with Erpnext.

Let me address an issue that concerns me for a while, and hopefully there will be some feedback from the forum.

For a non-account it is strange that there is no "payment" tab in ERPNext.

Payments are straightforward if it concerns the workflow "PO,PR,PI,PP" (order,receipt,invoice,payment). However, companies do have to pay many items where this sequence is not useful such as electricity bills, petrol for the vehicle, insurance etc.

This has to be entered now under accounts>> Journal Voucher General Ledger Entries.

For a non-account specialist, i always have to open an "old PV" to see what is credit and what is debit. Also "debit notes" and "excise vouchers" are somthing for a specialist, for a simple part-time shop administrator like myself they have no meaning (i google them to understand what it means).

I suggest two things:

1) Under the main menu a Payment Tab:

Here in plain English a form to do / or receive payments like electricity bills, stationary: Just to whom, account head, tax info, date and "the system" will generated the correct JV.

So I do not have to enter 3 lines (payment to company, VAT info, Bank account/cash) and contemplate what is credit and what is debit.

2) It would be convenient if a monthly payment can be generated automatically or a larger sum redistributed over the month.

Take my subscription to ERPNEXT. It is was a monthly payment that i had to manually enter monthly, and now we pay a year sum and it would be nice if we could redistribute this over the month of the year.

rgds robert

[nabin]

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: robert <be…@gmail.com>

Date: Tue, Jul 17, 2012 at 12:41 PM
Subject: [erpnext-user-forum] Re: Payments
To: er…@googlegroups.com

Hi Umair,

*****In purchase invoice, if you noticed, the item code is not mandatory. This means you need not create item for each expenses type. Just provide item name (based on expense type), qty, rates and expenses account in item details.


Ok, this is essential, Let's be clear about it.

I have an electricity bill for may, say Euro 100 and VAT Euro 10. Purchase Invoice : enter in Item table description electricity may 12, and under rate 100 under account head "Water & Elctricity Expenses" and nothing else. In the tax table I enter the vat rate. Or i make an appropriate tax/charges template for such purchases (VAT only, special utility charges).

Save, submit. Finished. Now I make a payment entry linked to the PI just created. This process is identical to creating a voucher where I enter the details ( as I used to do so far)???

Please expain the pro's and con's of the two approaches.

Monthly invoice could be generated by copy and change date only (if monthly payment is always the same)

I believe you should (and also in manual) give this some attention since it is important for all users of Erpnext.

rgds robert

On Friday, July 13, 2012 11:38:38 AM UTC+2, robert wrote:

Hi all,

I have been silent on this forum for a while communicating directly with Erpnext.

Let me address an issue that concerns me for a while, and hopefully there will be some feedback from the forum.

For a non-account it is strange that there is no "payment" tab in ERPNext.

Payments are straightforward if it concerns the workflow "PO,PR,PI,PP" (order,receipt,invoice,payment). However, companies do have to pay many items where this sequence is not useful such as electricity bills, petrol for the vehicle, insurance etc.

This has to be entered now under accounts>> Journal Voucher General Ledger Entries.

For a non-account specialist, i always have to open an "old PV" to see what is credit and what is debit. Also "debit notes" and "excise vouchers" are somthing for a specialist, for a simple part-time shop administrator like myself they have no meaning (i google them to understand what it means).

I suggest two things:

1) Under the main menu a Payment Tab:

Here in plain English a form to do / or receive payments like electricity bills, stationary: Just to whom, account head, tax info, date and "the system" will generated the correct JV.

So I do not have to enter 3 lines (payment to company, VAT info, Bank account/cash) and contemplate what is credit and what is debit.

2) It would be convenient if a monthly payment can be generated automatically or a larger sum redistributed over the month.

Take my subscription to ERPNEXT. It is was a monthly payment that i had to manually enter monthly, and now we pay a year sum and it would be nice if we could redistribute this over the month of the year.

rgds robert

[umair]

Dear Robert,

Since purchase invoice is an accounting transaction, the expenses account we select is more crucial than item code.

Creating purchase invoice without item will not let you filter invoices based on item code. But that can be easily achieved if you provide standard name and description for expense in all the invoices. You will find this bill in itemwise purchase register with no value for item code.

There is no con's as such not creating item for expense type You will get all the report and figures required.

--
Thanks and Regards,
Umair Sayyed
um...@erpnext.com
www.erpnext.com

---- ERPNext - World's most affordable ERP ----

On Tue, Jul 17, 2012 at 12:41 PM, robert <be...@gmail.com> wrote:

Hi Umair,

*****In purchase invoice, if you noticed, the item code is not mandatory. This means you need not create item for each expenses type. Just provide item name (based on expense type), qty, rates and expenses account in item details.

Ok, this is essential, Let's be clear about it.

I have an electricity bill for may, say Euro 100 and VAT Euro 10. Purchase Invoice : enter in Item table description electricity may 12, and under rate 100 under account head "Water & Elctricity Expenses" and nothing else. In the tax table I enter the vat rate. Or i make an appropriate tax/charges template for such purchases (VAT only, special utility charges).

Save, submit. Finished. Now I make a payment entry linked to the PI just created. This process is identical to creating a voucher where I enter the details ( as I used to do so far)???

Please expain the pro's and con's of the two approaches.

Monthly invoice could be generated by copy and change date only (if monthly payment is always the same)

I believe you should (and also in manual) give this some attention since it is important for all users of Erpnext.

rgds robert

On Friday, July 13, 2012 11:38:38 AM UTC+2, robert wrote:

Hi all,

I have been silent on this forum for a while communicating directly with Erpnext.

Let me address an issue that concerns me for a while, and hopefully there will be some feedback from the forum.

For a non-account it is strange that there is no "payment" tab in ERPNext.

Payments are straightforward if it concerns the workflow "PO,PR,PI,PP" (order,receipt,invoice,payment). However, companies do have to pay many items where this sequence is not useful such as electricity bills, petrol for the vehicle, insurance etc.

This has to be entered now under accounts>> Journal Voucher General Ledger Entries.

For a non-account specialist, i always have to open an "old PV" to see what is credit and what is debit. Also "debit notes" and "excise vouchers" are somthing for a specialist, for a simple part-time shop administrator like myself they have no meaning (i google them to understand what it means).

I suggest two things:

1) Under the main menu a Payment Tab:

Here in plain English a form to do / or receive payments like electricity bills, stationary: Just to whom, account head, tax info, date and "the system" will generated the correct JV.

So I do not have to enter 3 lines (payment to company, VAT info, Bank account/cash) and contemplate what is credit and what is debit.

2) It would be convenient if a monthly payment can be generated automatically or a larger sum redistributed over the month.

Take my subscription to ERPNEXT. It is was a monthly payment that i had to manually enter monthly, and now we pay a year sum and it would be nice if we could redistribute this over the month of the year.

rgds robert