Production Order finished without complete every step at BOM

[Francisco_Buendia]

Hi Team,
I’m doing tests on Manufacture module. I have an issue:

1. I have one item named “Birlo Cadminizado” (it’s like bolt with cadmium treatment).

2. It has a BOM that includes:
   a. Cadmium treatment. It is an item (service) for purchase and shall be supplied raw material (enabled).
   b. Birlo (without treatment). It has a BOM with Operations and Raw Material

Using the Production Planning Tool, I get the Sales Order, the item about, and then the Production Order for “Birlo Cadminizado”. First it’s made a “Material Transfer for Manufacture” but then the problem is that it is possible to complete the Production Order without the Cadmium Treatment.

Then I also tried…
Using the Production Planning Tool, I get the Sales Order, the item about, and then the Production Order for “Birlo Cadminizado”. Then was created 3 material request:

1. Manufacture - Birlo (without treatment). Remember it has a BOM with Operations and Raw Material

2. Purchase – Cadmium treatment

3. Purchase – Steel Bar included in Birlo without treatment BOM – **ERPNext created even there’s material in stock

Went back to the Production Order, started, made “Material Transfer for Manufacture” …and again it let me complete, finish the Production Order, without any warining, even if wasn’t made and received any purchase order for the Cadmium Treatment… and completed the “Material Request - Manufacture” for Birlo without treatment.

I’m implementing ERPNext to a company that precisely their most issues are in production. How could this be solved? ERPNext shouldn’t allow to complete a Production Order if aren’t completed every part of the BOMs.

By the way, I’m using Cloud version.

[umair]

Hello,

Thanks for posting this query here.

As discussed on support, if first item involves sub-contracting, then it will be best to create separate BOM for it, and follow sub-contracting cycle for it. Once sub-contracted item is available, you can use it as a raw-material for the production of finished item.

[Francisco_Buendia]

Umair,

This is the actual process for the manufacture of this item:

1. Cut steel bar (in shop)
2. CNC lathe (in shop)
3. Detail (in shop)
4. Mark (in shop)
5. Heat treatment (external supplier – it’s a service subcontracted

I tried three different ways and in all cases I’m using Production Planning Tool:

Number 1.

This way, the Production Planning Tool creates a Production Order for “Bolt without treatment”, then, from there it’s created one Material Request – Manufacture for “Bolt without treatment”, and may create a Material Request – Purchase for “Steel bar” if there´s no inventory.

The Material Request – Manufacture for “Bolt without treatment” has no effect, already exist a Production Order. So, ERPNext allows to finish the Production Order, and no Purchase Order was created to supply subcontracted service for “Cadmium Treatment”.

I know the manual and videos shows that from the Sales Order must be created a Material Request – Purchase, but the job of Production or Manufacturer Manager is to pull the Sales Order and program manufacture in shop and program subcontracted services, to the Sales Person.

Number 2.

This way, the Production Planning Tool creates a Production Order for “Bolt with Cadmium”, then it’s created one Material Request – Purchase for “Cadmium Treatment”, and may create a Material Request – Purchase for “Steel bar” if there´s no inventory.

Start the Production Order, then it’s created a Stock Entry to transfer the Steel Bar, and then ERPNext allow to finish the Production Order without making the Purchase Order for “Cadmium Treatment”. That’s because the Stock Entry from Manufacture automatically and only includes materials from Raw Material Warehouse.

Number 3.

This way, first I changed the source warehouse for the subcontracted service, then Production Planning Tool creates a Production Order for “Bolt with Cadmium”, then are created two Material Request: one to Purchase “Cadmium Treatment” and a second for Manufacture “Bolt without treatment”, and of course it may create a Material Request – Purchase for “Steel bar” if there´s no inventory.

Start the Production Order and it’s created one single Stock Entry-Material Transfer for “Steel bar” and “Heat treatment” …I can’t do an entry stock for a subcontracted service that hasn’t been made before the bolt is manufactured, the Production Order can’t be started this way. So I just erase the “Heat treatment” from this first Stock Entry–Material Transfer.

Back to the Production Order, now is In Process, click on Finish, and it creates a Stock Entry that lists:

Obviously ERPNext doesn’t allow to submit this Stock Entry because there’s no receipt for the Cadmium Treatment, so again I just erased it and Submit. Then the Production Order indicates Completed. Once again ERPNext allow to finish the Production Order without making the Purchase Order for “Cadmium Treatment”.

At this point I was hoping that the Production Order as a further step, request a Stock Entry for the “Heat Treatment”, so this takes me to two possible solutions:

From the step before, I’ll have to make sure that the Production Manager never find that the “Heat Treatment” can be also erased to do the Stock Entry from Manufacture and finish the Production Order, and so be obliged to complete the Purchase Order for the “Heat Treatment”. (This issue can’t be solved just modifying some permissions, because at the first Stock Entry – Transfer Material it’s necessary to erase the subcontracted service).

Or…

Number 4.

This way, the Production Planning Tool creates a Production Order for “Bolt with Cadmium”, it’s created a Timesheet and a Stock Entry for the “Steel Bar”. Back to the Production Order, now is in Process; complete and Submit the Timesheet, then can be finished the Production Order.

But this way I have to create an unliked Purchase Order to the Production Order, for the “Heat treatment” (subcontracted service) and depend completely from one person to do this parallel process before the Production Order is finished.

I just can figure another way to structure these BOMs so ERPNext requires the purchase for the subcontracted services, every step with no exceptions and in the right order. I know ERPNext team is in process to improve the manufacture module, so I hope my situation contributes to do so.

¿Or is there any other way to do it?

By the way, I’m also posting here our conversation, it may be helpful to others or maybe someone else had figured another way to solve this.
Regards.

[umair]

Hello @Francisco_Buendia,

Thanks for the detailed explanation.

I believe Number 2 will be most ideal approach to manage your operation.

In the BOM of Bold with Cadmium, you should add process material received after Cadmium Treatment, and Bolt without Treatment. With the creation of Production Order for Bold with Cadmium, you should also ensure that Purchase Order for the Cadmium Treatment is created. Before creating transactions against Production Order, you will have to complete sub-contracting process. Once you received finished item from the sub-contractor, you can use it as a raw-material and complete manufacturing process.

Another alternative could be:

1. Create two Item Codes, one for before Cadmium Treatment, and one for after Cadmium Treatment. Sub-contracting BOM should be created for the later one.
2. Create BOM for “Bold with Cadmium”. In this BOM, select processed item after Cadmium Treatment.
3. Create Purchase Order for the Cadmium treatment.
4. Create Production Order for Bolt with Treatment and use processed Cadmium Treatment in it.

@JayRam your thoughts on this will be highly appreciated.

[JayRam]

@Francisco_Buendia @umair:

I think Francisco has detailed out a very effective map of what ERPNext’s manufacturing module ought to do to track production processes on the shop floor.

I have a similar customer and my approach was the following:

1. I did not use Operations in the BoM, as I found that the operations is only a way of loading up the theoretical costs on the product.

2. I found that it is optimum to use a job route card on the shop floor, track each operation on the Job Route Card and minimize the number of entries that are necessary on the shop floor. The organization I am working with, did not want to track each process.

3. So, if I had to run your process on this company, this is what I would do:

Have 3 Part Numbers:

a. For Raw Material
b. For Cadmium Bolt Pre-Heat Treatment
c. Cadmium Bolt (Finished Product)

I would have two BoMs:

1. For Cadmium Bolt Pre-Heat Treatment (b) connected up with the required quantity of the raw material (a)
2. For 1 Number of Cadmium Bolt (c) with 1 Number of Cadmium Bolt Pre-Heat Treatment

However, I would ensure that I submit BoM #2 before I submite BoM #1. This will ensure that 1 is not nested in 2.

So, now when I run a Production Plan for Cadmium Bolts, the required item would show as Cadmium Bolt Pre-Heat Treated (b) and not the raw material (c). The production order for converting the Cadmium Bolt Pre-Heat Treatment (b) from Raw Material (a) is therefore not covered and that is fine.

I am not sure if there is a way to get ERPNext to create those Production Orders, if there is great. If not, I’d manually submit a Production Order for the Cadmium Bolt Pre-Heat Treatment (b).

I would not use ERPNext’s workflow for Production as it is not very intuitive the way it is right now.

Instead, I would use customized reports for the Production Supervisors and Operators to plan their manufacturing activities and to plan for the Purchase Order for the Heat Treatment process.

This way, with a certain amount of difficulty I would be able to complete the manufacturing of this item. I agree it is neither a very elegant not an easy process.

We are in the process of coming up with a plan for enhancing the manufacturing module and we take @Francisco_Buendia’s inputs to make life easier for him and his client. I will run the plan for the manufacturing module past @Francisco_Buendia and get his inputs, when the plan is ready.

But yes, I share his pain and his perspective. This is what I wanted to communicate at the conference,

This not to say that I don’t like ERPNext. Despite this, ERPNext is the best thing that happened to me, Epoch Consulting and to Small, Medium Businesses (SMBs)

Trust this helps.

Thanks

Jay

[Francisco_Buendia]

Hello @umair,

@umair

Before creating transactions against Production Order, you will have to complete sub-contracting process. Once you received finished item from the sub-contractor, you can use it as a raw-material and complete manufacturing process.

That’s exactly the reason why it’s not the best option. I can’t do the subcontracting process if I haven’t machined the bolt. ERPNext should request “Entry Stocks” and “Material Request” as in the order of the BOM. Would be great if the BOM could be input not in two separate lists, as Operations and Raw Materials, but as one single list. For example…

This way ERPNext would follow every step in the right order and would be possible to nest BOM’s as required. Think it as a flow chart…

@JayRam the alternative you suggest it’s somehow as is in the Number 4, using a Job Route Card in shop floor. Because to do the Heat Treatment I’ll do a Purchase Order unlinked to the Production Order, but included into the Operations list in BOM as if it is done by the company itself. But once again, I don’t want to depend on someone memory to request the subcontracted service… I’m talking about over 200 productions orders per week, for different kind of items, all with different processes and that actually make mistakes like that.

ERPNext should request automatically every step in the order at BOM. That’s why the Number 3 it’s a closer solution, nesting BOMs, but using the same Raw Material Warehouse that is used for the steel bar, so the final Stock Entry requests the purchase for the subcontracted.

Let me suggest that now you’re in the way to improve the manufacture module, BOM, Planning tool, etc… don’t forget to think of it as if have to run by a flow chart.

And… by the way, I love ERPNext! And I’ve worked with SAP (a bit), Syteline, Visual, and some others… ERPNext have a huge potential.

[Francisco_Buendia]

Hello again @umair @JayRam,

¿What happended?
After the last update, if I mark an item as subcontracted, the first Stock Entry (Transfer for Manufacture) after start Production Order… do not request the purchase of subcontracted item.

And now no matter if that item (that should be subcontracted) has “Raw Material Warehouse” as default or a special warehouse for the supplier… Well, that’s good. But now is useless to setup an item as subcontracted.

---

Also… I didn’t mention before but, in following steps:

1. Create a Sales Order
2. Run Production Planning tool
3. Create a Production Order for Bolt with Cadmium. Start.
4. Stock Entry – Transfer for Manufacture:
   a. Steel Bar
   b. Cadmium Treatment (now it cannot be setup as subcontracted item)… Trick: I erase this line at this point, this service can’t be made if hasn’t been made the bolt.
5. Finish the Production Order for Bolt with Cadmium.
   6. Stock Entry – From Manufacture:
   a. Steel Bar
   b. Cadmium Treatment… At this point was already made the Purchase Order.
6. Production Order for Bolt with Cadmium: Complete.

Was it really manufactured the Bolt without Cadmium Treatment? Never was created a Production Order for it. And at point 6, the Stock Entry didn’t list or request entry for Bolt without Treatment, only for the Steel Bar and Cadmium Treatment.

As a truth I didn’t notice before, I don’t know if this also happened before the last update or if it just start happening now.

Regards.