I understand and have shared some of the concerns about ERPNext going the way of Odoo due to the move to separate modules into apps in the past. However, I recall the conversations from around v11 - v13, where it was sounded that continuing to maintain and improve ERPNext on a monolithic structure was becoming problematic as trying to enhance a module could break the other due to their deep interdependence. Hence the idea to separate modules into apps was conceived to allow apps to be developed and enhanced separate from the core to ensure stability. Also tied to this was the question of why one should install a module not needed or not used (eg manufacturing, e-commerce, to name a few).
I would assume that separating the apps, especially essential apps such as CRM will still include integration with Sales Order, Address, Contact, etc and more importantly, I believe it has been restated severally that Frappe/ERPNext and all associated apps will remain free forever as all apps released so far have been released under the same GNU Affero General Public License v3.0 so I don’t think there is a covert move towards an Odoo-style strategy.
I thought the same, but I’m getting worried because someone pointed out (ERPNext integration?) - and I hadn’t noticed this before - that Frappe started using the AGPL license for many products. I think this should be discussed in a different topic because it really reminds me of Odoo’s sneaky steps.
Correct me if I’m wrong, but I haven’t read anything about this until now.
Actually, please see the attachment. It’s kind of misleading because the License section is like every other GPL-licensed Frappe product, and I hadn’t noticed that badge at the top before.
AGPL might be to deter people from hosting the product and selling it as a service, thereby not having to release the source. Commitment to keeping their products derived from frappe Framework as open source I guess?
It still won’t affect implementations as a service I believe.
Haha - reminds me of old times. Everytime we release something, @wale is ready with a new feature request! On another note, best to track feature requests on Issues · frappe/crm · GitHub
I think CRM will open up the community to a whole new set of users who are looking to exit expensive CRM products.
Quotes will be built in ERPNext and the sales cycle will continue there. This is mostly for pre-sales communication. Yes there will be some integrations points, but the first goal is to make a best-in-class CRM - that is hard enough.
You can follow CRM progress on GitHub - there is no “sharing of plans with the community” because they don’t exist. It is upto the engineer (in this case @shariquerik) to take the product forward in his best capacity - I am sure that means taking feedback from the community as and when required.
If you are willing to contribute, feel free to jump in and send your contributions via GitHub
Yes, all new products are licenced AGPL to ensure stronger copyleft protections. As we see in the long run, the people who really make money from FOSS is AWS, GCP etc. AGPL is a strong deterrent to these folks to play by the rules.
There are advantages as well as downsides to strict copyleft licenses such as AGPL. A debate is not necessary since Frappe, as the copyright holder, will and should decide which license to use.
However, ERPNext users came to expect that CRM, not as a product but as a feature, is part of ERPNext, and accordingly that they will benefit from an improvement of this feature.
As it turns out, work is focused on moving out this feature into a new “product”. So, if ERPNext users wish to make use of an improved CRM functionality in the future, they will have to use this product on top of ERPNext. Which means they will have to abide by the licensing terms of AGPL.
AGPL was already available when ERPNext was created. Frappe could have switched licensing for ERPNext to AGPL at any moment in the past. I don’t think it was a mere oversight that Frappe stuck with GPL 3. I assume adoption would not have been as high with a more restrictive license.
If Frappe is going to slowly replace features in ERPNext with new products that are licensed AGPL instead of GPL, it would just be consistent and more honest to switch the licensing for ERPNext to AGPL, too.
Not sure I fully understand the strategy behind releasing a new CRM product as a semi-standalone product alongside ERPNext. One of the primary strengths of ERPNext has been the uniformity of the UI and the common Frappe framework, which allowed similar customizations and translations across the modules. And without the need to jump around to multiple desktop environments.
Now that the CRM product has a unique UI and does not share as much data with the primary ERP, isn’t that going to fragment the code base, reduce uniformity, and increase data redundancy? If it’s “up to [a single] engineer to take the product forward in his best capacity”, “taking feedback from the community as and when required”, doesn’t that mean a single person is now responsible for the look & feel of the product according to their sole opinion, and what if that person decides to take a job elsewhere? (No offense meant to the developer, I’m sure they’re very talented!)
I’m guessing part of the reason to separate much of the UI code is to enable a more user-friendly and flexible interface, but it seems a better way to achieve this is improve the underlying Frappe framework with added functionality. That would also make it that much easier to upgrade the UI of the other ERPNext modules (not just CRM) and maintain consistency across the product line.
Maybe both points of view are right … Separate CRM maybe appears inconsistent just thinking about ERPNext. But many users wants easier tools, without the whole “elephant” over the CRM.
In my (short) experience, customization process to make ERPNext CRM module clean and simple is not so easy. Helpdesk is other good example of this.
In addition … seems that a good first step to revamp the entire framework UI.
Odoo certainly isn’t perfect, but when it comes to modularity, they seem to have the right approach. You can just install the CRM, and if that’s all you need, you don’t have to install and see 20 other menus and apps you don’t use. But if you do install the others, the UX is identical and the database tables are shared.
I guess my main question is: if you’ve got a bunch of diverse and not-so-integrated apps (HRMS, CRM, Helpdesk) that don’t share the same data, do you really have an ERP? Or do you just have a bunch of apps?
With its current trajectory, ERPNext will eventually just be a bunch of apps.
I don’t think there’s any need to be that critical as they already have an interest in reworking the entire UI so as to standardized the visual difference between ERPNext & Frappe and the standalone apps.
The standalone apps are mostly tailored for those customers looking for just that app alone and nothing else.
ERPNext losing the CRM module for this new CRM App would only happen if and when the new app can be fully integrated with every existing functionality of the current CRM in ERPNext. Just like how HRMS (Not the HR App) is seamlessly integrated.
I believe these apps are needed so that smaller organizations can digitalize better and be more efficient in the one single aspect that they feel they’re lacking. And as they grow and see the efficiency of these apps they’ll slowly grow and migrate towards a complete ERPNext to better scale their business.
More people wanting a specific feature, more chance that it’ll get implemented. It’s as simple as that.
The market perceives ERP and CRM as different product categories. There are a few overlaps, but they are not very significant (and we can build some basic integrations there).
@vic-t No we are not replacing ERPNext with a new license. At the time of publishing ERPNext, I wasn’t aware of AGPL - I just chose GPL because copyleft and Linux / Wordpress were using GPL.
The goal with these new apps is to make more crafted experiences for users. Small companies can continue to use core ERPNext with CRM and other features out of the box.
@DCRob yes will also upgrade the Framework UI with the new designs sometime soon.
@avc@Void_Moon Yes, the response to the new CRM is overwhelming - maybe it will have more users than ERPNext pretty soon!
yes will also upgrade the Framework UI with the new designs sometime soon.
Thank you for the response @rmehta . It’s good to know the Frappe/ERPNext UX will be improved to more closely match the newer standalone apps.
The market perceives ERP and CRM as different product categories
I’m not sure I agree that a well-integrated CRM isn’t considered by the market to be a necessary part of a comprehensive ERP system, but if the goal is to offer a standalone CRM product to other customers that might not need a full-blown ERP, then I can see the logic to the approach.
I just can’t help wondering if there was a way to still make it part of the ERPNext application and database, but tweak the installation and workspace menus to allow access to just the CRM module if that’s all the customer wants at that point.
